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Geno
Fan
Norway
102 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Dec 2003 : 15:37:36
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Good to have you back, Arnold!!
I agree with many of the things you say. Yeah, political correctness does my head in. We have this problem in Norway too. For instance, it´s impossible to have a rational discussion about Islam without some PC idiot hurling the racist accusation against you. I for one am against Moslem schools in Norway, and the reason is very simple: I want immigrant kids to have the same opportunities as Norwegian children. Clearly, they wont have that if you send them to schools where they are taught nonsense about women being inferior to men, that homosexuality is evil and so on. So this is the opposite of racism, it's rather the PC brigade who are racist since they seem to assume that immigrants somehow dont have the same needs for personal freedom as native Norwegians. (By the way, I'm also against extremist Christian schools which fill kids' heads with similar bullshit)
I agree with you that the Germans really have learnt from their history (unlike many other nations, like Russia, where many people including Putin still look upon Stalin as a great leader, the man who actually killed more people than Hitler.) If another Holocaust will take place, it will not happen in Germany. But you should be careful about questioning the Holocaust figures. Naturally, the exact figure, whether it was 5 or 6 million dead, will never be arrived upon. But to claim that gassing never took place, like the Revisionists do (Im not saying you do), is preposteruous. These people don't actually count a single proper historian among them. If you really are in doubt about these things, I urge you to read this article, which deals with all of the revisionists' claims.
http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi
Criticism of Israel in itself has nothing to do with anti-semitism. But it would be a good idea to speak in terms of "Israeli policy" and not "Jewish" policy. Far from all Jews live in Israel, and many of them are even against the occupation of Palestine. Also, I think phrases like "Zionist lobby" gives certain unpleasant associations. This idea that jews are pulling the strings everywhere has been around for centuries and is still alive it seems. For instance, in a survey conducted in Arab countries just after 9/11, it turned out that the majority of Arabs believed that Jews were behind the attacks on the twin towers. And it's not true that American foreign policy is controlled by a Zionist lobby, in fact there isnt a single Jew in Bush's cabinet. (True, many of his advisers are Jews, but so are many of his strongest critics.)
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yeah i do bodybuilding. ok neither I did ever see animal lifting weights to increase there body size , but, sorry but these two things can't be compared.
I don't know you but i don't consider myself as an animal, where human beeings and there's a big difference between us and animals.
i consider bodybuilding as a part of a healthy lifestyle, done by people who care about there health. obviously i'm not talking about those who abuse steroids. but nearly every doctor will tell you that you'll have great benefits by doing bodybuilding, as you'll have by getting enough sleep and eating the right food.
that's it, so bodybuilding is not something "unnatural" but is part of something typical for us human beeing, 'cause we can focus our mind also on other things than just eating and procreation.
My point exactly. Therefore it's not interesting whether things that human beings do are natural or not, whether its homosexuality, body building, butterfly collecting etc. This doesn't mean humans are free to do anything of course. Some things like pedophilia are definitely wrong, not because it's "unnatural", but because it's morally wrong to abuse other humans. So I wish words like "natural" would just disappear from all discussions that dont have to do with animals (or, say, female breasts  )
Yeah, who knows, some people might be tempted to experiment with homosexuality because it's considered cool. If so, good luck to them. Maybe I too could do with an injection of coolness, but I think I'll remain straight for now.  |
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HIT
Fan
Germany
41 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2003 : 13:51:15
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hi geno
i thin i'll change my nick to arnold or mr. governour  by the way i'm not one of this big bodybuilders, that's not the reason i started this sport. actually i'm even dieting, therefore loosing some muscles 
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...I for one am against Moslem schools in Norway, and the reason is very simple: I want immigrant kids to have the same opportunities as Norwegian children. Clearly, they wont have that if you send them to schools where they are taught nonsense about women being inferior to men, that homosexuality is evil and so on...
principally i agree with you. but you know, it's definitely a difficult topic. on one side we think so 'cause we want those children to have a good education, on the other that's their culture, their religion an we as european societey have to respect it, whether we like it or not. if those children come from narrow minded families their parents will try to put this belevies on them too, and they will definitely be able to influence at least their childhood also if they go to traditional norwegian school.
but if i had to decide i think i would say that since these kids go to school here in europe, they should get the same education as europeans . if they don't want, their families maybe should think about going back to where they came from.
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But you should be careful about questioning the Holocaust figures. Naturally, the exact figure, whether it was 5 or 6 million dead, will never be arrived upon. But to claim that gassing never took place, like the Revisionists do (Im not saying you do), is preposteruous. These people don't actually count a single proper historian among them. If you really are in doubt about these things, I urge you to read this article, which deals with all of the revisionists' claims.
I said that the number of gassed people is unclear 'cause I read that some plaques in ausschwitz had to be removed downgrading the number of victims. that's why i thought that there seem to be some problems determinating the real ammount of killed people.
only by reading your link, at least in parts, you remembered me that i read this stuff on www.zundelsite.org .
I agree with your opinion about the revisionists, to me it doesn't matter whether the gassed people were 6, 4 or 3 millions. they were x millions just killed 'cause they were jews, that's what counts and what makes it such a disgusting thing.
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Criticism of Israel in itself has nothing to do with anti-semitism.
i know, but some people handle it that way and that's what i criticize
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Also, I think phrases like "Zionist lobby" gives certain unpleasant associations
 yeah that's right. just choosed that phrase to make my point clear. actually i was refering to organisations which are very loyal to Israeli politics.
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Yeah, who knows, some people might be tempted to experiment with homosexuality because it's considered cool.
yes, there are many fools nowadays 
"It is only within the context of having properly developed your mind that you will be able to truly enjoy the achievement of your material values, including that of a more muscular body." ---- Mike Mentzer
 www.no-pain-no-gain.com/images/metal1.jpg" border="0"> |
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Little Lene
Fan
Norway
159 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 19:19:12
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IMPORTANT!!!
I DONT THINK ITS BROKEN UP BETWEEN LENE & STIAN, BECAUSE every TIME THEY TALK ABOUT EACH OTHER THEY BEGIN TO LEAF AND BEEING . AND they SELF HAS NOT SAID ITS BROKEN UP!!!!! ITS ONLY THE MEDIA. THEY HAS BEEN TOGHETER IN 6 YEARS!(WITH ONE BROKE IN THE MIDDLE) SO ITS SOME KIND OF STUPID THAT THEY THEN NOT SOULD BE TOGETHER ANYMORE
I THINK THEY ARE TOGHETER...
DO YOU AGREE
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www.lenem-fansite.cjb.net <-- my lene site!!
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Tarnim
Fan
Sweden
403 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 23:51:53
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Don't know, dont care.
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you're right in all the things you do
in all the choises you make
don't be afraid
it all works out in the end
-Lene Marlin, "It's All Good" |
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Little Lene
Fan
Norway
159 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 09:59:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarnim
Don't know, dont care.
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you're right in all the things you do
in all the choises you make
don't be afraid
it all works out in the end
-Lene Marlin, "It's All Good"
OOH! You must They're sooo sweet together
________________________
www.lenem-fansite.cjb.net <-- my lene site!!
Lene Marlin: You are the [size=6]FORGIVABLE SINGER![/size]
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Marcycampa
Fan
Italy
81 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 14:09:12
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Don't know...hope the best for Lene whatever or whoever will be! :-)
***En venn for livet vil du finne i meg. En som alltid vil være glad i deg, å
bry seg om deg. Så hvis jeg dør i natt, mn venn, lukk dine øyne og vi møtes
igjen!!***
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Little Lene
Fan
Norway
159 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 15:06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Marcycampa
Don't know...hope the best for Lene whatever or whoever will be! :-)
***En venn for livet vil du finne i meg. En som alltid vil være glad i deg, å
bry seg om deg. Så hvis jeg dør i natt, mn venn, lukk dine øyne og vi møtes
igjen!!***
There so sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet together. Ther are good friends. That said Lene in an interwiew
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www.lenem-fansite.cjb.net <-- my lene site!!
Lene. You are the FORGIVABLE SINGER! |
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Darksky
Fan
France
156 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 19:18:27
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quote:
some people might be tempted to experiment with homosexuality because it's considered cool.
I totally agree with you Geno...It's kind of a "fashion" for some ppl nowadays, so they think "gotta try this to b in the fashion movement" so they try...I know this cuz I'm a girl who has a gf =P But not for fashion...hopefully =)
They say...Those who experience homosexuality have some difficulties to stay straight then =P
**gjorde det vondt da du falt ned fra himmelen?** |
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HIT
Fan
Germany
41 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 17:51:38
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broken up or not, I don't care either 
anyway, I would like to see more "well known" people have relationships to people who are not famous or not of the same business.
i guess I'm not the only one who thinks so, but all those relathionships seem to be a big fake.
whether lene has that habit too, hm I don't know and I don't wanna know.
but common, some things are too strange to be categorized as real relationships.
i mean look at the medias, actors are in love with other actors, pop-stars with other pop-stars, maybe sometime someone's together with a big manager or something but in the end it all goes around the same disgusting business.
that's first kinda morally wrong and second a very strange rule.
look at society, did you ever note that doctors are in 90% of cases married to doctors, lawyers to lawyers or economists, busdrivers to taxidrivers or stuff like that?!? Probably you didn't, neither did I
if not part of a marketing strategy it has to mean that these people, doing their job in the higher society, had become so narrow-minded that they don't give a f**k about who's just "ordinary".
nothing new, everyone knows that that's it but i think it's sad, and it's one of the reasons I don't spend my time reading articles about these fools. It's waste of time, why should we like to know anything about it, does it make our life better? NO
same thing with lene, I really like her music but why should I read tons of articles about her and Stian. Ok, I don't mind to know if she's in a relationship, just for curiosity, but nothing more. Everything else is waste of time that should better be invested in our own relations, don't you think so?
now as I said, I don't know if Lene got that bad habit too and I don't want to know, but I'm sure if she'll remain in this business for a long time she'll turn that way too
"It is only within the context of having properly developed your mind that you will be able to truly enjoy the achievement of your material values, including that of a more muscular body." ---- Mike Mentzer
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Geno
Fan
Norway
102 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 15:02:17
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Hi Darksky. Yeah, to play around with gay sex just because it's considered cool seems a bit silly to me. But then again, people today are generally very confused so maybe they need to do a little experimenting before they find out what they "really" are.
Btw, hope things are great with you and your girlfriend, even though you live so far apart.
Arnold:
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on one side we think so 'cause we want those children to have a good education, on the other that's their culture, their religion an we as european societey have to respect it, whether we like it or not.
I'm inclined to disagree with you here. Remember, we're talking about their parents' culture, not the children's own. Naturally, parents in all societies want to bring their kids up according to certain values, but it's a long way from that to the kind of religious indoctrination that goes on in some immigrant communities (or for that matter in some Christian sects). In my opininon, we should get rid of all kinds of faith schools (Islamic or Christian). Religious freedom does not mean the freedom to indoctrinate the impressionable minds of children with values that in many cases are contrary to human rights (like the way women are viewed in Islam).
I think the French are doing the right thing banning hijab and other religious symbols in schools. Forcing kids to wear religious uniforms does nothing to promote integration.
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Tarnim
Fan
Sweden
403 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 18:59:16
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quote:
Originally posted by HIT
anyway, I would like to see more "well known" people have relationships to people who are not famous or not of the same business.
i guess I'm not the only one who thinks so, but all those relathionships seem to be a big fake.
...
but common, some things are too strange to be categorized as real relationships.
i mean look at the medias, actors are in love with other actors, pop-stars with other pop-stars, maybe sometime someone's together with a big manager or something but in the end it all goes around the same disgusting business.
I would say it's almost a bit of a class-isue. In our modern world celeberties has almost become a class of their own. And for all times people from common backgrounds and surondings have married each other. To get togheter with someone from another social group is not that common for us "ordinary mortals" either. And besiedes, if a famous person whants to get together with someone from the masses it's hard because of all the billions of golddiggers and fameseekeres out there. So I can fully understand that celebs tend to date celebs.
But the bussines sure is disgusting, there we agree. And I can imagen that there are some sick relationships too.
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that's first kinda morally wrong and second a very strange rule.
look at society, did you ever note that doctors are in 90% of cases married to doctors, lawyers to lawyers or economists, busdrivers to taxidrivers or stuff like that?!? Probably you didn't, neither did I
But if we put it like this, how many doctors are married to cab drivers? Not that many I would think. As I said before it's more of a class thing, wich also is really.
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nothing new, everyone knows that that's it but i think it's sad, and it's one of the reasons I don't spend my time reading articles about these fools. It's waste of time, why should we like to know anything about it, does it make our life better? NO
same thing with lene, I really like her music but why should I read tons of articles about her and Stian. Ok, I don't mind to know if she's in a relationship, just for curiosity, but nothing more. Everything else is waste of time that should better be invested in our own relations, don't you think so?
Well the tabloids and media atention is another issue. Can't understand it either. You would think people would have better things to do than invest their time and money just to find out who's doing who. What I really can't understand is journalist making a living of these stories and persons. You can't have any selfrespect if you chose that kinda work for a living.
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you're right in all the things you do
in all the choises you make
don't be afraid
it all works out in the end
-Lene Marlin, "It's All Good" |
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Darksky
Fan
France
156 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 22:06:15
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quote:
I think the French are doing the right thing banning hijab and other religious symbols in schools. Forcing kids to wear religious uniforms does nothing to promote integration
I agree with you Geno.
And I'm for this law too...I'm French, and I have to say that there are lotz of problems here because of religious signs at school...
It brings violence between kids (and not only) from different religions...I have experienced this violence a couple of times, and it's very shocking. In fact, when you're at school hearing some students scream to another one "you're a dirty jew, I'm going to kill you!" and stuff like that, it's hard to bear, and people don't feel safe anymore. But if people didn't wear all those religious symbols when they went to school or others public places, there would b less problems...
Look, one month ago I was going to school, taking the subway...And a fanatic came into the subway wanting to kill those who were jews. We were smth like 60 ppl in this part of the subway, and nobody moved. They all were scared,(and so was I) and it was understandable cuz I swear this guy was scary! Nobody moved cuz he could have had some guns or whatever. He was yelling horrible stuff like "mother f**ker of jews, go to hell..u're not human. U deserve to die" and so on..Kinda hard to know you have to take the subway to go back home then...Ppl were schocked the day and more..And this doesn't only happen in subways...But it starts in school between the youngest kids..And that's kinda dangerous..
**gjorde det vondt da du falt ned fra himmelen?** |
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HIT
Fan
Germany
41 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 13:59:05
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quote:
I would say it's almost a bit of a class-isue. In our modern world celeberties has almost become a class of their own. And for all times people from common backgrounds and surondings have married each other. To get togheter with someone from another social group is not that common for us "ordinary mortals" either. And besiedes, if a famous person whants to get together with someone from the masses it's hard because of all the billions of golddiggers and fameseekeres out there. So I can fully understand that celebs tend to date celebs.
hm, yeah that sounds reasonable too
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As I said before it's more of a class thing, wich also is really.
yup, but between us "ordinary mortals" there is not such a big distinction between classes if we want to call it like this, i would say these things are getting better.
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What I really can't understand is journalist making a living of these stories and persons. You can't have any selfrespect if you chose that kinda work for a living.
i think as long as these guys don't consider themselves as real journalist there's nothing to be ashamed for.
i mean the stupid is the one who reads this stuff, not the one who writes it and earns great money by doing so
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Look, one month ago I was going to school, taking the subway...And a fanatic came into the subway wanting to kill those who were jews. We were smth like 60 ppl in this part of the subway, and nobody moved. They all were scared,(and so was I) and it was understandable cuz I swear this guy was scary! Nobody moved cuz he could have had some guns or whatever. He was yelling horrible stuff like "mother f**ker of jews, go to hell..u're not human. U deserve to die" and so on..Kinda hard to know you have to take the subway to go back home then...Ppl were schocked the day and more..And this doesn't only happen in subways...
 might have been some nazi fool maybe
anyway i think i would have been scared too in that situation, although in big cities it's normal that you meet some really strange people.
so then, did anyone call the subway security or the police to get this guy arrested?
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But it starts in school between the youngest kids..And that's kinda dangerous..
i don't think it's that dangerous as long as its between young kids. that's pretty normal, they are just acting to make themself more respected or to be cool
u know, if it would not be religion they would "fight" about it would be any other available thing that makes one different from the rest of the group, it has always been so and it's part of evolution.
usually it's the fat or intelligent kid that is mobbed out by the other members of the school class, kids at that age usually don't give a sh*t about religion, but they are very interested in promoting their coolness
"It is only within the context of having properly developed your mind that you will be able to truly enjoy the achievement of your material values, including that of a more muscular body." ---- Mike Mentzer
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Geno
Fan
Norway
102 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 05:21:48
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Hi Darksky. You're right. I just don't understand what kind of parents want to use their kids like advertising boards for Islam (or another religion). It doesn't take a genious to see that this will just set their children apart from his/her classmates. Don't they want their children to integrate or what? Why can't they just leave their kids alone with their barbie dolls and playstations and let them make up their mind about religion later on? Does anybody seriously think a 10-year old has a clue about religion?
And what's the point in a 10-year old girl wearing hijab anyway?
Anyway, what you're doing in France now, upholding the secular state, is good. Only wish Norwegian politicians had the guts to do it too (never gonna happen...). What people want to do in private I don't care about, but I hate it when someone tries to force their religion on society.
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don't think it's that dangerous as long as its between young kids. that's pretty normal, they are just acting to make themself more respected or to be cool
Well, where do you think kids get their ideas from? I think you're underestimating the extent of anti-semitism in some European countries. When Jewish schools and synagogues are attacked (or even burnt down, as happened to the synagogue in MArseille) that ought to serve as a wake up call. Here's a good article:
http://www.iht.com/cgi-bin/generic.cgi?template=articleprint.tmplh&ArticleId=128917
And by the way, you're wrong in assuming that it's just nazis who do these things. Maybe it used to be that way, but today it's increasingly young muslims who are behind it. Sad but true. That's why immigration is so important, because we dont want to import Middle-Eastern conflicts to Europe. |
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Geno
Fan
Norway
102 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2004 : 05:24:27
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| Sorry, the last sentence should read: That's why integration is so important... etc |
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Lene and Stian
